Apple Becomes Top Five PC Vendor in Western Europe

Sure you can. You just don't want to. 10" screen alone disqualifies iPad as a PC. And there are other things like the lack of file system, missing any facilities for development/execution of applications by users.

I didn't know the PC had a screen size requirement. Don't tell Toshiba (http://us.toshiba.com/computers/laptops/mini-notebook) or Samsung (http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/laptops/NP-NF210-A01US). They use terms like "computer" and "PC" to describe their 10" laptop, er, such-and-such in their marketing material.

And there are other things like the lack of file system, missing any facilities for development/execution of applications by users.

Wouldn't there have to be a file system so as to allow delivery of iCloud shared documents or documents synced via iTunes, or do you mean "lack of file system" in the traditional sense we've become acustomed since adopting a GUI? There obviously must be a file system, as I have several apps on my iPhone for accessing stored music files besides the default Music app.

I'm guessing you're like me in that you spend a good deal of time with computers. We take for granted that many people do not or, at the very least, struggle with them.

It is interesting that so many in the forums seem hellbent on considering anything that doesn't meet minute criteria should not be considered a computer. I'm old enough to remember when people used to argue that the GUI wasn't a true computer experience due to the lack of power when compared to working in DOS or within terminal on a *NIX machine. They saw the command line as what constitutes a computer and the proliferation of a computer with a GUI as an affront to everyone and "too simple." The author/blogger Corey Doctorow believes a computer needs to have a user-replaceable battery.

If the computer is going to come to the masses, it needs to evolve. The masses shouldn't need to evolve to come to the computer. :p

You don't surf the web, do e-mail and watch movies on a calculator. Let's not get into absurdities.

1) Tablets come closest to the average consumer's expectations of a traditional computer, and 2) there is also evidence that they have not only killed netbooks, but in some cases *can* replace PCs.

Apparently, this is enough for the industry and reporting companies to start raising questions, including them in PC numbers, and do forecasting.

Quite frankly, I can see their point.

How many people surfed the web, did e-mails and watched movies on the Apple Lisa? The Commadore 64? (I would've included the Xerox Star, if not for the "disturbing" fact that they actually did send e-mails... or well, the equivalent). Were they then not computers?

But, to get to the point, including calculators would indeed be absurd. In fact, so would perhaps including early-age personal computers (despite them, by definition, being just that - albeit in the past).

Thus, we know that the meaning of the word "computer" is situated, or historicized. This is what i tried to make clear by speaking of the conflict created by the shift in "computing" towards consumption, with the notion of what a "computer" is - which, still, leave the ipad as the computer which is not.

That said, the measure itself holds value. But it only does so in so far as the ipad is seen as the computer that is. If not, the measure loses value.

Is the ipad a computer? Of course, but that is besides the point.

p.s.

The observation that Y were able to successfully replace A with B does not imply that A is B.

Do we really need to have this thread again? If you are asking about including iPads vs smartphone in PC market share numbers, the simple answer is that iPads have been shown to have an (arguably) significant impact on the PC market outside of simply redirecting consumer dollars. Smartphones have not.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

(Just saying... in essence i agree with your reasoning).

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What exactly is the difference?

Is an Ipad really anything but a big-screen Iphone without the voice cellular radio? It's less than an Iphone, in fact, since it doesn't have the voice cell radio..

Dont forget about the Padfone - now thats when things get really ****ed up.

Originally Posted by Winni
Unless you can show us a statistically relevant number of users that could fully replace their desktop or notebook with an iPad, you have to admit that the other poster was right with what he said. Until then, iOS devices are in the same league as gaming consoles, pocket calculators, toasters and mp3 players -- all of them are nice and useful gadgets, but none of them can replace a "real" computer.

The evidence is right there on the chart. The manufacturer that jumped on the netPC bandwagon fell 45% due to the iPad. That's some "statistically relevant" numbers.

When it comes to tech, its easier than you think.

But only you and Steve could see these things, and now he is gone. So that leaves you. Everyone else is wrong except for you, and hopefully for your sake Tim Cook inherited the sixth sense from Steve.

Why is the arguement so "either / or "? Why can't they both be "real" computers, but for different purposes and even more importantly, different users? Why is 1:1 substiturion important or even part of the equation?

People are starting to replace their laptop/desktop for the iPad. Two in my family alone. Statistically relevant, no. But interesting if this is occuring in households across the globe. Not eveyone wants to code, or fold, or CAD, or genome or whatever the hell else geeks do on computers, the vast majority just want to be able to perform a finite number of tasks.

Seriously, where is the line between 'gadget' and 'computer'?

I don't disagree. Again - as I said in a previous post - it's only for sales and marketing (and these boards) it seems. At the end of the day - they are all computing devices. And whatever works for an individual is all that matters. Not what it's called. I had a cousin (no longer alive) who after his stroke used a speak-n-spell to communicate. It was every bit a computer for his use case than what can be used today. Maybe not the best analogy - but my point is - it was a computing device.